Welcome back to It Pays the Bills! Today’s guest is Dillon Brown, a newly-graduated director and writer. We chatted about the state of film, Dillon’s university project, which was screened at the BFI, and more!
A bit about Dillon:
Dillon Brown is a Horror writer / director by day but a waiter at a French restaurant by night. Dillon recently graduated a film production course at London Metropolitan University. His Film 'Divine Hunger' was shown at the BFI and his other works have been shown at various film festivals. Dillon is also a men's mental health advocate, as he suffers with PTSD; his work explores darker themes that go places people tend to avoid.
In the condensed transcript below, I’ve italicized my questions and comments. Paid subscribers will receive a bonus edition next week, Perks of the Job. Enjoy!
Do you mind introducing yourself a bit?
Hello. My name is Dillon, obviously. I'm a writer, filmmaker. Used to be student, just graduated like a couple of weeks ago. I'm at that weird sort of limbo crossroads where you've just finished and you obviously have a lot of ideas of what you're interested in, but you sort of don't know what in particular route, especially when you're doing writing.
What is your creative pursuit and how did you get into it?
As a kid, I was sick a lot and had a lot of things going on. So I would stay home or just lock myself away. And it just started by literally just watching films. And I read a lot of comics and that's the sort of stuff I write as well. And then the older I got, I started to realize that, oh, that could be more than just a hobby. It's like, oh, I'm actually good at it. And I actually think I've got an interesting voice to tell and to express some stuff.
So you mentioned that you graduated from some kind of creative program?
Graduated from University London Metropolitan. It's a media production course, a film production course. And so you'd have to pitch. And then if your project got picked, then you would direct your project. So my project got picked. So I directed and wrote my project that got screened at the BFI in the summer last year. So that was fun.
So what was that process like? Did you come with an idea? Did you have a script written and then go on to direct it?
So I'd had the idea for my project for a while. Like way before I was even at uni, I had the idea, but I didn't feel like I was maybe ready enough or I don't know, in the right space maybe to do it. So I took some time. I pitched it and then everyone loved it.
Surprisingly, I'm really good at pitching, even though I'm a shy person. It's just because I feel like I'm in my own world. I'm just talking about what I'm interested in, what I like and what I love. So then I just kind of forget everyone.
But say I was up top talking about cats. I like cats. I've got a cat. But I'd probably be shaking and panicking.
Once you pitch it, then you have eight weeks to give a script and then the tutor has to give you the green light to actually make it and then you've got three, four months to film it and a month and a half to edit, which isn't long at all.
So how long did that finished film end up being?
I think it was like 15 minutes, I think. We should have shot like double the amount of footage, but we probably shot about 23 minutes. So there was stuff in the script that I had to cut, and then there was stuff in the script that I had to then twist to be like, oh, that could be shorter than what it was, or that scene could be longer because we got more footage for that.
So that was the one thing because especially when it's like you haven't really got a budget you're working like having actors that you're not actually paying and it’s just for experience. You can't take a block of two weeks so we had to pick and choose moments.
They say that necessity is the mother of invention. Did you have to be creative in those ways because of the limitations that you're working with?
I'm a really creative person, but when things don't go right, and it's probably the autism that comes out, it really sets me off. As soon as one thing goes wrong, I feel like everything's going wrong.
I'm the sort of person that's like micromanages the process, especially filmmaking, which is what's actually pushing me towards wanting to write more. Because in the writing process, I don't have to rely on 20 people to not have one issue.
And it's not like, that big of a deal if somebody does something wrong, because especially in a student film, hundreds of things go wrong because everybody's learning, including me. And it's just a lot of pressure that you're just trying to balance.
What is your current day job and how did you get into it?
Technically, it is a day job, but it's more nocturnal, really. I don't start until like six o’clock. So I'm a waiter at a French restaurant in the heart of central London.
Do you enjoy it?
Nobody really enjoys their job, do they? If we're all being real, I don't think many people do. And the people that do, then great. Well done. But it's hard to get to that point.
I don't hate it though. The only reason why I actually go for customer service jobs is because I’m genuinely trying to learn more social cues. I'm a very anti-social person and I've been told that. And that's like, oh, I didn't see myself that way. I don't feel like I'm that way. I just am very particular. I don't talk to everyone and I'm not like sunshine and rainbow smiling all the time because I'm always in my cloudy head.
I do those jobs to pay bills, obviously, but also to just like get my head on track and be more presentable.
Do you find that it's impacted your directing work at all or your writing, like having those experiences in customer service jobs?
Well, a few years ago, when I was at Wands and Wizards, I noticed a change. I was working at a customer service role where I was interacting with a lot of nice people, working with a lot of nice people. And then I was like, oh, I feel a lot nicer. It's the way I can say it. Like, if you've ever seen Alice in Wonderland, I got my muchness back. And I felt like there was more to me.
But in jobs like this, I just kind of feel more, I don't know, strung up, hamstrung. Like I feel like I'm being held at a certain point and there's only so far I can genuinely go.
But then I've been at customer service roles where I've just absolutely hated it. And it also comes down to also the people you're working with. It's just more of the actual customer service itself. The nicer the place, the people are richer, which if they're richer, then they expect more. And if they expect more, then chances are they've got more entitlement, for example. And that's where I'm like, oh, it's just exhausting, really.
Obviously, I don't plan to do this forever, but I don't know when exactly that switch will be. So that's more of the headspace I'm in now with how long am I going to continue to do that?
Well, speaking of actually that, you talked about your lineage of previous jobs. So what have those jobs been? And do you have any least favorites or favorites?
So my very first job ever was I was a lifeguard at a leisure center across the road. And it was like a part time thing for a little bit, a couple of months. That was nice because I like swimming. I like water and stuff. It was just fun doing that.
And I got into uni and I was like, oh, I need the jobs. So then I got a job at Wands and Wizards Exploratorium. That's where I've met some of the people that we know. That was fun. Everyone quit. But they're all still my friends.
And then I worked at a cinema for a day. I was so desperate to work at cinema as a part-time job. I was like, free cinema tickets, you know, good life. Basically, I'm earning money and saving money because of how much I go cinema. I started there and then I was told one thing and I was received another. And I was like, I'm not about to do that. And the amount of rats that are in cinemas too.
And then my next job, I worked at Camden Barbecue. And this is my least favorite job. And that put me off working. I was like, I don't need a job. So I was just like, you know what? I won't have anything fun. And that was 2023. So I didn't do anything that year. And it was actually better for it. I focused on uni work. And I was like, you know what? I'm actually getting to a place here where I feel better.
And then personal stuff happens. And then you're like, oh, I need to get a job. And then now I am where I am.
It is interesting, as you said, that you kind of you've chosen these customer facing roles and stayed in them as well. Have you ever been tempted to do anything else as a day job?
I got very close to getting a job at the Come Alive experience, the Greatest Showman experience and you'd be in like full costume and stuff and like immersive stuff.
But a job I’m sort of considering right now because obviously times are hard, money's not best and you kind of want more stability in your life. And I was like, I like film. And it was funny enough, it was my girlfriend that said this to me. And other people have said it to me too. And I'm like, I don't know if that's smart because I'm not the best. But being a media teacher, because people have been like, you talk about films really passionately. If you can't make it in that space, which is obviously hard, then why don't you try and help other people?
And I'm like, but I don't like people. Imagine a younger person that just is watching TikTok or on Snapchat all day and just throwing abuse at you. I'm pretty sure a kid could, in 10 years, could figure out an insult to make me want to cry.
It's an interesting thing that I could pursue because I could still write stuff. That doesn't string me up to the thing where I won't have any free time. So, that’s something I'm considering, but obviously I need a teacher's degree. But sadly, you need qualifications to do any job nowadays.
Kind of going into this, you were talking about jobs that string you up or don't string you up. How does your current day job feed into or relate to or oppose your creative pursuit?
So I feel like it's ruining like my day schedule because I wake up and then I’ll, even if I've got the whole day, I'll feel like, oh, I've still got to go to work.
So the whole year I've been writing something and I get to a point where I'm like, okay, I can finally start [working on it a bit more]. Cause I've been doing it on post-it notes because - David Lynch, RIP. He talked about writing. If you write at one scene on a playing card, if you write 150 of those, you have a two-hour movie or whatever. So I was like, oh, I'm going to try that. As a writing process, I'm going to write on these post-it clips.
So I've started writing on them. But then I'm like, every single time I get blocked, then I come back to it and I'm like, what I had written was awful. What was I thinking? Because I can't get a process of like a block of two weeks, let's say, which isn't even enough, but just a block of two weeks to just jam them out and then evaluate them to be like, oh, that one's not good. That one needs work. And then start whittling it down to be better.
I haven't been able to get to that process yet because then I go, well, it’s five o’clock, got to go work. And then by the time I finish and I get back in, it's like one o'clock in the morning. I'm like just tired and I'm hungry because of the time I'm eating, I'm working at dinner time. So now I'm eating dinner at like two o'clock in the morning and then going to sleep at like four o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning. It's just, it's ruining everything really.
I'm a really bad person with structure though. Once one thing goes bad, it's just everything's lost. Then I have to just get a sledgehammer and destroy everything and just restart. And when you're starting to get to my age, like mid-20s, I don't think you can just keep dismantling everything. You need a foundation to keep building. Because if you keep doing that, you're never going to get anywhere. And then you're going to be mid-30s, mid-40s and be like, oh, well, what have I got to show for it. It's just pointless.
Do you have any advice for anyone looking to pursue a creative career?
I would say, well, two things. Firstly, why do you want a career? Because the amount of people that were in my film classes that were just like, you know how much money you can get to do this music video? I don't know how much money you get. Like, if I was getting paid as much as, like, what's the most minimal wage job ever? Like, a 17-year-old bartender getting paid, like, £6 an hour or something crazy. Like, if I was getting paid that, but my work was as shown as much as Tarantino, I would never care in my entire life. But that's because a huge part of what I want to do, what I want to do is because I love it.
So if you think about it deep down that you love doing what you want to do, but you don't care about the consequences, then go ahead, do it.
And then secondly, do something meaningful. Like have something behind you that's more than yourself. If you're going to go into creative, it doesn't just have to be something as important as, I'm going to do this to help out this political reason or because my gender is this or my race is this. It can be something as, oh, I want to be an advocate for something small. If you've got a message then chances are then you’ll probably get somewhere because then people will care more. It’s all about empathy and emotion.
What is your creative dream?
So I would love to write a comic book. It doesn't matter who it is, like any superhero on either roster, a DC or Marvel comic book. I would die to write anyone.
Do you illustrate as well, or is it just the writing that you do?
I used to be really good as a kid, to the point where on Golden Time, on a Friday night, there would be 20 kids lined up to give me a piece of paper to draw them something so they could take it home and say they've drawn it so they could get something from their mum or dad. And I started charging people as well. I was coming home with like 30 quid.
I had an accident where I broke both of my wrists. And then when I got back to it and I was like, I'm just not, I can't anymore. My hand was too shaky.
So after that, that's when I was like, oh, creativity. I have all this interest and ideas. And then I got into film that way and being creative that way. So that's how I was able to express the art and stuff. Because I've always liked art.
Film wise, if I was to continue doing that sort of stuff - you know Friday the 13th? I love how bad those movies are, but it always upsets me that there's not one outright good Friday the 13th movie. Like, you watch Halloween - the first Halloween's good, it’s just a good movie. Nightmare on Elm Street, amazing movie. Scream, amazing. Even Child's Play.
Friday the 13th, the most it can get to is, well, that one wasn't bad, was it? And obviously, there's a whole legal dispute going on with the rights of that stuff. But if I got somewhere in 20 years I would put my heart into that. That's something I've always wanted to do, ever since I was like 15 as well. I'm talking about making a movie that's good and isn't just about women getting naked, which most of those slasher movies are. Like, fuck all that. It doesn't need that to be good.
Like, just some good practical effects, actually scary, which most slasher movies just aren't scary anymore. They're just used to gore and, like I said, sex.
Just something with more depth. For comic books as well. They're my dreams.
What is your dream day job?
I would say having my own, I don't know what you call it, just creative department where I'm not necessarily writing or directing. You know how they're talking about using AI to come up with movie ideas and stuff? Like that. Like, just go to me and then I'll just throw shit at the board and I guarantee I'll make 100 movies better than what Netflix are doing right now.
I know a lot of people don't like the 80s either. There's people like Tarantino that scoff at it and stuff. Like, oh, the 60s and the 70s, the 90s are where real cinema was made. But if we're just going to start going into a blockbuster era and just like cheesy, fun popcorn movies, at least let's make them good for like the 80s.
Because I've been showing my girlfriend the Back to the Future movies, which I think is the best movie ever made. It's not my favorite movie, but I think it does everything right. There's not a bad thing about that movie. I want to make horror movies, but if I wasn't going to make horror movies, I'd make Back to the Future. That's the aesthetic and fun and everything.
But yeah, I'd have my own industry creative department where I'd be like, it'd be the dream. And just say to people, do whatever you want. But here's some cool ideas for books and comics and video games and movies and just media in general, TV shows.
It's not as fun as it used to be. And I know that's such an old man screaming at clouds thing. You know, when you get older, it's like everything's worse. But it genuinely is.
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