Welcome back to It Pays the Bills! Today’s guest is Niall Hemingway, a London-based actor and writer. We chatted about their journey as an actor, writer, and teacher, and the difference between writing for print and for stage!
A bit about Niall:
Niall Hemingway is an actor and writer based in London. They graduated from the Courtyard Theatre Training Company with a BA in Acting. Their debut novel The Son Of Circe Vol. 1 is available now.
The Son of Circe, Vol. 1 | Instagram | The Son of Circe Instagram
In the condensed transcript below, I’ve italicized my questions and comments. Paid subscribers will receive a bonus edition next week, Perks of the Job. Enjoy!
Can I ask you to introduce yourself quickly?
I'm Niall Hemingway and I am an actor from London.
What is your creative pursuit?
So as I say, I'm an actor first and foremost, but over the last few years that has expanded into writing and a little bit of directing here and there.
And how did you get into it?
It's like definitely being an annoying emotional child that my mum was frustrated by. And so she threw me into a Sunday club when I was about six, five or six. And then my whole life made sense. And I like to think I was a much easier child to be around. However, I'm sure if you asked my mum, she'd probably say I was worse. So that's where it began.
And then I did all the school shows, even wormed my way into school shows that I was too young for. I was that kid that was like, oh, I'll just like assist backstage whilst also learning people's parts, just in case.
Did you ever like try to take them out so you could have your rise to stardom or anything?
I never officially took anyone out, but I do know that I came close a few times where I was just like, you know, if someone was slightly sick, I was like, you should just take it off. Like if you're not feeling very well, just don't come in. I'm much better now. I'm obviously like super nice.
And then did you study drama as well?
Yeah. So I did it for GCSE, A levels. And then I had a fantastic drama teacher called Kate Markwell, who, when I was 16, said I should go to drama school. And so that became my focus through high school. In fact, that was my sole focus. I basically just passed exams, but anything like drama or English, I excelled at. And then I went to drama school at 18 to the Courtyard Theatre and did a BA in acting for three years, which was a wild time itself. And then just have worked since, very fortunately.
And the writing as well?
I have just come out with a book as well, yes. So I started writing the pantos - So I've been with the same company, DK Productions, for just over 10 years. And about five years ago, I started writing for them. Mostly because it was a bit of an ego that I was like I can write funnier than the ones we have. And then found out it's quite hard to write things, but loved it.
When lockdown happened, I had this idea that I wanted to create something for myself because, as most creative people did, felt a bit like - oh my god, what am I doing, I can't create anything, I can't be in anything. So I had this idea and I started writing it down and then started reading bits to my ever suffering husband. And then here we are, three years later, and it's just been published and out in the world, which is very cool.
How do you feel? Like, it must be like putting your baby on the market almost.
I thought it would feel like okay because of, you know, when you do a show, you sort of go, cool, people are going to judge it and that's going to be lovely. But with the book, it was more like, I worked on it really privately. There was a handful of people that knew that I was doing it. And then, because I guess books take a while to read. So you throw it out and everyone's like, oh my gosh, this is great. And then you don't hear anything for a long time, because people are reading it. So you're like, oh, what do people think of this little thing that I've put out there? And are they working out how to say that they like it or that they hate it? And it's very vulnerable and it's very surreal, but it's also very cool.
Did you have to go through a process of like finding an agent or a publisher?
So I tried for an agent first and got loads of, well, actually I got loads of nothing for the most part. And then the rejections I got, they were like really oddly nice rejections. They were like, we think this is a great idea, but there's no space for it in the market. So we're not going to do anything with it. And I was like, oh, okay, cool, lovely.
And so then I went to look at publishing houses and I was very fortunate that the publishing house Austin Macauley wanted to do a collab together. So I put some money forward and they put the rest and then they helped bring it to life and then got it into Waterstones and Barnes and Noble and all those kinds of places.
Wow, Barnes and Noble, that's such an American reference. Does that mean you're in the US as well?
I am available in the US, Australia, the UK. It's very surreal. It's very odd because again, it's like, I have so much control, but no control over it. And I'm a perfectionist. So there are times where I'm like, oh, I wish I could bring it back just so I could tweak a few things.
What is your current day job and how do you get into it?
Yeah, so the lovely between job that I have is I am a vocal coach and writing teacher at the Young Actors Theatre in Angel. And it’s a lovely place to work, to be honest. I do a few days a week on their foundation course. That's one part of it. And then I do independent classes for kids from ages six all the way up to adults.
I've been teaching for probably eight years. I've been there for five but I've been teaching around and I dip into other places when given the opportunity.
What made you start teaching?
The true story is I had a really good friend called Jamie who got really drunk on a night out and was like, I can't go to work tomorrow, dropped me this text and asked if I had a DBS and could I go and cover for him? And I was like, yeah, no problem, I can do that.
I'd never taught before in my life. I had no idea what I was doing. But it was easy money, an hour and a half doing drama games and then doing a little bit of scene work. Then I somehow started teaching the singing, which was, again, it was one of those moments where I was like, yeah, I could definitely do that.
Because I can read music and I can sing, therefore I must be able to do this thing. The truth is now I can, but at the time I definitely was blagging it. And it was a lot of like, I know, I'll just sing it. And then you just sing it back to me and that's teaching.
But I did learn to love it, particularly the kids. When you work with young people who are really passionate, they remind you about when you were a child and why you started doing this thing. The reason I go back to it every time is because there is something about going back, particularly when they're like 15 and older and starting to think about what they might want to do drama schools or whatever. There's something really rewarding about sharing the knowledge with that kind of age group.
I'm very fortunate that where I'm working in Angel, it's a charity. So a lot of the kids that come through don't have drama in school and it's their outlet. They're so good and they're so funny and they are so much more knowledgeable than I think I was at that age. And there's a few times where I've written stuff recently where I've taken lines of things that they have said because I'm like, that's genius. I can't wait to see what you do because whatever you do, you're going to be fucking cool.
Yeah, and it reminds you like to stay at it because obviously I'm in my 30s and I've been doing this a while. And I just finished panto this year and we had four amazing teams of kids in it. And for so many of them, they talked about how it was like so cool that they were doing this thing, particularly on Christmas Eve. All their friends were in and I was like, yeah, I've got to remember this bit, actually. I've got to remember that I'm actually excited as well. As much as this is a job at the moment, this is really fun.
Have you had any previous day jobs and of them, do you have any favorites or least favorites?
I've done the actor's cliche job. So I've been a waiter. I worked in a sports bar, probably my least favorite job because I'm not into sports at all. But like, it was a good time. I was like 18, 19 and it was in Waterloo station, I think it was. Oh, and you weren't allowed to have facial hair. They hated facial hair. So it was a uniform rule, which I don't even know if you could do that these days. So bizarre. And obviously like I would be doing like an end of year show and I had to have a beard. So if the owner was coming in, I had to hide where they kept all the beers. They’d shut me in there if I had facial hair and they'd be like, we'll come and get you when they've gone. That was probably my least favorite.
Made coffees, I've been a barista. That was probably my favorite of all the jobs I've had. I used to run their takeout section. So I'd start at 6am and finish at 3pm. And I loved it. It was great. I'd have my own music on. Everyone was very nice, mostly. Yeah, it was a good time.
Are you a morning person?
6 a.m. is my golden time. Let's get up, let's get it done. Bed by nine, that's me.
How do you deal with the late nights if that's your natural routine, as it were?
Not well. No, I've become such a napper. I get up, do the thing, and then I'll be like, okay, I've got to go back to bed for like a couple of hours.
How does your current day job feed into, relate to, or oppose your creative pursuit?
At the moment, it's brilliant because I teach a writing class on Thursday. Which means I also get to write my own stuff at the same time because you're just in a room and you go, here's what we're doing, and we all read bits at the end and check in, which is really lovely. So that's really beneficial.
Same way that being a vocal coach, when I'm auditioning, I'm never in better health than when I'm teaching because you're constantly warming up or as you fix someone's song, you're sort of like, I probably should apply this to my own stuff.
So I have to say, teaching for me is the best side hustle. I'm very lucky that they're very flexible. So if something comes up, they are really good at going like, cool, go do that thing. And then message us when you're on your way back. And so I'm very fortunate that it feeds in. Helps the creative process.
What's your writing class like? And what ages are you teaching?
So I teach the Young Company writing group at the Young Actors Theatre. They are 13 to 18-year-olds, who are currently developing their own one-act plays. They'll get a writing exercise of, you know, here's three words. You have 10 minutes, write something, let's hear it out, and we'll spitball. But at the moment, it's a lot of like, cool, what did we do last week? Let's check in. Great, these works as scene structures. This is where we need to get to. Off we go.
And then they'll sit for an hour and 15. It's really lovely. They just they've got their notebooks they've got their pens and they are just scribbling away. So I get to sit there and occasionally check in and if they have questions and whatever. But it means at the moment I get to sit there and [work] on my second book. It's a really nice process.
Also just having a writing group in general, because it's quite a solitary thing to do. So having, even though it's a class I teach, having people sort of hold me semi-accountable is quite nice.
And again, I'm going to say this because I do think young people are amazing, but the stuff that they write and how they write about their experiences and the way they see the world is fascinating. And I think then for me as a writer, particularly if I'm writing a character that's of that age, it does challenge my thought process on them because I'm like, oh my God, they know so much and they see the world so, so beautifully, actually. And in all it's good and it's bad and they're very, very inspiring.
Did you find the process of writing a script very different from writing a book?
Yeah, so I've written a sitcom and I've written a play before. And that form of writing is, I find, really different from the book. Because, you know, dialogue, I think probably because of being an actor, I find it easier knowing how people speak and what they say and why they say it.
And then writing a book, creating a world and remembering things like adjectives and verbs. So you're not saying the same thing all the time. And you're suddenly like, oh yeah, this is like hard work.
And I found writing a book lonelier than writing a play. And I think that's because characters come alive quicker and you hear them. Particularly with panto, I know quite a lot of the actors that come in, so I know who I'm writing for, I know what style of comedy they do, and that makes it come alive quicker. Whereas with a book, you're the only one who knows them, and you can't really explain them to people in the same way. Or at least I can’t. I find it really hard to be like, this is the person I'm thinking of.
And yeah, two different processes. And I'm not sure which one I prefer. I thought I'd be like, oh, it's this. They both offer something and scratch an itch in a very different way.
And I suppose with a script as well, at a certain point, you can always get somebody to come in and read it, like read it out loud. And that helps as well. Whereas with a book, you don't necessarily have that kind of, you know, come over and read out loud two chapters of my novel is not quite the same thing, is it?
Yeah, exactly. Like you send a play to someone and particularly if it's an actor friend or whatever, send them a play and they will read it in a couple of days and get back to you. Send them a book. They don't get back to you. Which is fine because it's a different process, isn't it?
And also when you say to a bunch of actors, hey, I've written this thing. Do you want to get together and read it around a table? Nine times out of 10, everyone's really keen because they want to do something. Where you don't [go] like, hey guys, you want to come over and just sit and read for a bit? If anyone does want to do that kind of night, I'm well up for just coming and reading a book.
Do you have any advice for anyone looking to pursue a creative career?
I think, firstly, you have to know that it's what you want. I think if it's something you've done and you just go, oh, that was fun, it's really different from knowing it's the thing because it takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of effort. And it does take a lot of sacrifice, particularly if you want to make it a career in the beginning. You've got to miss the party. You've got to do those things.
And I also think my advice would be don't let anyone tell you you have to do one thing. I remember coming up and thinking about it and everyone was like, if you're going to be an actor, you can only be an actor. You can't do anything else. It's got to be all in on that. And I think that's really misleading. I think if you want to be an actor, great. But if you also find out you want to direct or write or make a costume or do anything, do all of it. Because I think inevitably it all leads to the same place.
So that would be my advice. Know you want it and don't limit yourself to one thing.
What is your creative dream?
Do you know what? I'm going to be honest, I don't know. What it was and still is to a degree is I want to pay my bills from creative work, which I'm fortunate I am achieving.
I want to tell stories that last and have an impact. I don't mind what format that is in, but that's the creative dream, is the story that lasts forever. When you're asked that as a younger performer or a younger person, it would be like, I want to be in this and I want to win this. And that's not my answer anymore. I don't even know what shows that I want to be in other than like, I just know that the story I tell is the most important thing.
Do you have any kind of stories that you're looking to tell that you're willing to share?
The stories that I want to tell are championing LGBTQ people at the forefront. I want to find this story where we can elevate minority groups without demonizing others and making them suddenly the root villain. But anything that has the queer underdog lead and it not being just about coming out and not multidimensional. I want us to have like a really evil gay person in a film. And it's not because they're gay that they're evil. They're just a bad person.
I want the lights and shades of it all, where it's not so stereotypical. Those are the kind of stories I want to find and tell.
What is your dream day job?
My dream day job would be to be like a Real Housewives interviewer. I would love to sit down with the housewives and just ask them questions for their social media, or whatever it was. That would be like a dream.
Do you have like a set in mind, like which cast or like specific housewives in mind?
Oh, I'm such a Beverly Hills fan. So give me Lisa Vanderpump anytime. And give me Kenya Moore, Sutton Strack as well. And then anyone but Ramona from the New York housewives. That would be my dream. Or go on tour with Countess Luanne. I think she'd be a hoot!
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